Legislators Debate Vouchers at Alta Club

None by KCPW

(KCPW News) A debate about vouchers between two state lawmakers at the Alta Club this week centered on whether or not the Utah public school system is "broken enough" to merit a dramatic change.

"Is our system sufficiently broken that we're prepared to give up on the dream of a system that serves all students, is uniting and unifying and not bent towards fragmentation and splinterization?" asked Representative Kay McIff during his opening statement of the debate.

State Senator Curtis Bramble says the same public education concerns have persisted in Utah for decades:

"If you change the names and dates, you'll see the arguments, complaints and challenges about public education funding are the same," argues Bramble. "It occurs to me that one definition of insanity is continuing to do the same things and expecting different results. That's what we're dealing with in public education."

The debate between Bramble and McIff at the Alta Club this week is the latest in a string of such meetings being held by local community and civic groups in anticipation of the November 6th vote on vouchers.

1. Jay Blain said:

That is right Sen. Bramble, if you continue to underfund public ed. over the years, it is insanity.

2. TeacherFORvouchers said:

Yep. Just throw more money at the system and that will fix everything.

I am a teacher and I am for vouchers.

I'd also like to get rid of tenure that allows horrid teachers to keep their jobs and ties the hands of parents and administrators who can't do a thing about it.

I would love to see the entire system overhauled, beginning with how we assess our students. This regurgitation of facts nonsense leads to teenagers who can't make change from a cash register.

We are falling behind as a nation, and if we expect to keep pace with the rest of the world, change has to happen-and money is NOT the answer. Nice try Jay.

3. Faulty Rhetoric said:

@TeacherFORVouchers:How does getting rid of "horrid" tenured teachers fix the problem of larger class sizes and lack of good teachers. It is just a smoke screen inside your argument. WE need to pay teachers a better salary to get good teachers in the system. The lack of supply of good teachers is what actually ties the hands of administrators and parents. There are good teachers out there, just not enough of them. I think that this is what you are trying to say. BTW you must not be tenured.

4. Grant said:

I am tired of hearing the same thing: Just throw more money -- A trite foolish argument. Of course it takes money to provide education. Utah education uses its funds well to provide educations for all students even those that don't want an education.

The other lame argument: Get rid of tenure that allows horrid teachers...-- I was hired to replace a horrid teacher who was fired. It can be done, you just need a good administrator who knows what to do.

As far as teaching methods and overhauling the system... -- Yes we need more cross curriculum teaching, project learning, cooporative learning, and most of all *** Students who want to learn and parents who support. It is easy to teach students who value education. It's hard to teach students who can't follow rules and don't value education.

5. QOTU said:

To me, the definition of insanity is electing the same legislators over and over and expecting anything to change!

To Grant: I, too, am sick of hearing the "union protects bad teachers" whine. I agree with your statement about "horrid" teachers. A bad teacher can be fired by any administrator who isn't too lazy to follow due process. All employees deserve due process.